Salmond confirms political will for car ferries – with feasibility study set to get underway
June 22, 2012
EXCLUSIVE:
A SCOTTISH Government study into the viability of reinstating car ferries between Dunoon and Gourock holds the key to making it happen – after Alex Salmond declared that such a service is his “wish”.
The forthcoming feasibility probe will examine exactly how two purpose-built ships for the route can be provided and financed, while staying within current “legal constraints”.
But the First Minister has made it clear that there is a definite political will to drive forward a plan to provide car ferries on the recognised lifeline link.
In a letter to Susanna Rice, of the Dunoon-Gourock Ferry Action Group, Mr Salmond states: “As has been indicated publicly on a number of occasions it is the wish of Scottish Ministers that the ferry service should carry both vehicles and passengers.”
Transport Scotland today confirmed that there are “aspirations” to provide a vehicle and passenger service – but everyone must wait for the feasibility study, which is expected to report before the end of the year.
Meanwhile, a three-point plan to first improve the current passenger-only service will continue to be steered by Infrastructure Minister Alex Neil, who will meet again with the Ferry Action Group and Argyll and Bute Council in Dunoon on Monday.
It is understood that the feasibility study will be launched after the conclusion of those talks and any fine-tuning that may be required to its terms of reference.
One dilemma ministers might have would be whether to ‘bind’ an operator to using two new ships provided by the Government – however there is nothing to prevent them being built and offered on equal terms to every prospective bidder.
And campaigners believe it highly unlikely that an operator would want to produce its own ferries when it could lease two brand new purpose-built vessels for the length of any contract.
A Transport Scotland spokesman said: “Ministers’ policy and aspirations for the Gourock-Dunoon town centre to town centre service is clear, as are the legal constraints under which the Government must work.
“We aim to launch a study into the feasibility of operating a vehicle and passenger ferry on the route, with the vehicle portion unsubsidised in line with European Commission requirements.
“The terms of reference for this study have been developed with the full involvement of the local Ferry Action Group and the two local Councils.
“One issue the study will explore is how vessels could be provided and financed.”
The Ferry Action Group today gave a cautious welcome to the First Minister apparent leaning towards a car ferries outcome.
A spokesman said: “We are pleased that the First Minister has clarified the situation regarding subsidy.
“We also welcome the statement from the First Minister indicating support for both a vehicle and passenger service.
“We will be clarifying with the First Minister his reference to the cost of new boats – and the apparent inability of the Government to make the use of new boats a condition of an operator contract.”
MSP Michael Russell said: “The First Minister clearly confirms the Scottish Government’s support for the three part process now underway.
“It also explains what the constraints are in terms of European legislation and the tendering process.
“It would be best for everyone to let Alex Neil take forward the issue with the other players and I hope the Ferry Group remain focussed on that constructive and inclusive approach. I certainly remain strongly supportive of it.”
Other ferry campaigners remain unconvinced on the issue.
Widely respected transport expert Professor Neil Kay said: “What worries me is not the statement from the First Minister, which is merely a restatement of what they wished for before the 2007 and 2011 Holyrood elections but did not deliver.
“What is more immediate and significant is the leaked consultant’s report cited on this website and the series of comments from the constituency MSP Mike Russell.
“Mike Russell is unstinting in his praise of Western Ferries and their expansion plans, threatened the community about the bathtub boats “use it or lose it”, and now threatens Argyll Ferries they may have the tender “taken away from them”.
“So what happens if they do get the tender taken away? There are no suitable vessels on the horizon, they would have to be built specially. But the present situation is unsustainable.
“You can expect to see plans for a half-hourly Gouorck-Dunoon bus service from the town centres via Western, replacing the present Argyll Ferries service – perhaps as a so-called ‘temporary measure’.
“Once that happens, you will never get the direct ferry service back.
“And when that happens, you can expect to see the constituency MSP praising Western and the new service to the skies.
“Think it cannot happen? I would not bet against it.”
Dunoon Community Councillor and ferries campaigner for more than 30 years, Ronnie Smith, said the First Minister’s comments were “obviously welcome”.
But he added: “It must be pointed out that he expresses a ‘wish’ as opposed to a firm commitment. Similar comments were made by him and by his Ministers following the 2007 election in which they had pledged to provide such vessels.
“Careful reading of the rest of the letter makes it clear that he is defending the decisions which led to the present situation.
“If the First Minister ‘wishes’ a vehicle service then it would be at least a gesture of goodwill if he immediately ordered the deployment of the Saturn and/or the Coruisk on this route as a temporary measure, until custom-built vessels are provided by the Scottish Government.”
Argyll and Bute MP Alan Reid said: “I’m fed up with the SNP Government saying one thing about our ferry service, and then doing another.
“On a radio phone-in many years ago Alex Salmond told Ronnie Smith that there should be vehicle ferries on the route. Yet his Government deliberately rigged the tender process so that we got the bathtub boats.
“Mr Salmond’s pathetic excuse for the bathtub boats is that no bidder came forward with a bid to include a vehicle service. That’s because the SNP deliberately held the tender process up until they were safely re-elected in May 2011.
“They only gave CalMac 16 days to find suitable vessels. No wonder we ended up with the bathtub boats.
“Dunoon ferry users were sacrificed to help the SNP’s election campaign. The SNP didn’t want people to find out before polling day that they planned to make the service passenger-only.”
Mr Reid added: “Mr Salmond’s claim that the service has improved since the New Year is ridiculous. The only reason that there have been fewer cancellations in 2012 compared to 2011 is that the weather has been less stormy this year than it was in the last few months of 2011.
“Surely Alex isn’t claiming that the SNP should take credit for the weather being less stormy!
“SNP promises are no good to stranded ferry users. What we must have is action now.”
The First Minister’s letter in full:-
Dear Ms Rice,
I am replying to your letter of 7 May following my recent appearance on “Call Kaye”.
The Scottish Government is disappointed not to be able to offer a vehicle and passenger ferry service on the Gourock – Dunoon route. However, delivering the Gourock – Dunoon ferry service had to be carried out in line with the European Commission’s Decision of 28 October 2009 on State aid No C 16/2008 (ex NN 105/2005 and NN 35/2007) in respect of subsidies granted in respect of maritime transport services in Scotland. The European Commission’s Decision set the following parameter for tendering the service – “the subsidy will cover only passenger traffic”. All future Scottish Government support for the Gourock – Dunoon town centre ferry service will continue to require to be compliant with the Commission’s Decision.
The competition for the current contract specified that any bids that included a vehicle service must demonstrate that it did not require a subsidy for the vehicle element. However, no bidder came forward with a bid to include a vehicle service. In respect of the lack of investment in new vessels to which you refer, if the Scottish Government had built car ferries for this route (costing around £15m) it was likely that they would not have been used as bidders were allowed the freedom to choose their own vessels. Spending so much on building vessels that might not have been used was not something that could be reasonably justified.
The Scottish Government is committed to providing a ferry service between Gourock and Dunoon that is fit for purpose and that is why Alex Neil MSP, Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure and Capital Investment, is personally chairing a Steering Group involving all interested parties, including the Dunoon Gourock Ferry Action Group, to deliver on that commitment.
We are continuing to work with Argyll Ferries on the implementation of their Improvement Plan and note that the reliability, punctuality and weather resilience of the service in the first four months of 2012 has been much better than was experienced in the first six months of the new contract.
As you are aware an independent maritime technical consultant has been commissioned by Transport Scotland to extend the search for an alternative vessel to the MV Ali Cat. That work is nearing completion and a report will be available to the Steering Group chaired by the Cabinet Secretary.
Furthermore, the Scottish Government is currently finalising the terms of reference for a feasibility study into the viability of a vehicle and passenger ferry service with a passenger-only subsidy. The intention remains for this study to be completed by the end of 2012.
I trust that all of this underlines the Government’s commitment to provide a safe, reliable, frequent, commuter ferry service between Dunoon and Gourock town centres. As has been indicated publicly on a number of occasions it is the wish of Scottish Ministers that the ferry service should carry both vehicles and passengers.
ALEX SALMOND
29 Responses to “Salmond confirms political will for car ferries – with feasibility study set to get underway”
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I wonder how long it will be before Western Ferries finds something to object about and tries to stop a new service.
GOOD NEWS let’s be positive about this before the gloom and
doom merchants start.
..do you mean the “realists” ?
You are right. If you had a goldmine why would you let anybody else try to get into it.
How can this be a lifeline link when there is another car ferry service between Inverclyde and the Cowal Peninsula. The previous service was rarely used. Why should the Scottish Government use its limited funds to provide a service that very few people used previously. Why should those using the service get stuck in Dunoon traffic when leaving the ferry, when getting on your journey from WF is far easier.
Cowal residents did not use the previous service between Gourock and Dunoon, they voted with their tyres. They have got the service they have selected by their actions.
The First Minister’s announcement is a “Political Announcement”. Western Ferries have every right to shout foul, when a competing car ferry is to be subsidised.
Only the passenger aspect of the service would be subsidised. The vehicle carrying aspect would not be subsidised. There is no legal impediment to a vehilce and passenger service, as long as the accountancy for both aspects is kept separate.
You would need some pretty creative accounting to seperate the running costs of the passenger and vehhicle elements. For example, what proportion of the fuel do you attribute to the passenger element, bearing in mind this will vary with each journey as the weight of passengers will vary, thus affecting the amount of fuel required to transport the passenger element. Furthermore, a larger vehicle ferry would be much less efficient than a passenger only ferry and therefore the fuel costs, even just for the passenger element would increase as a result. This would be the case for every other element of the vessel costs. I’m sure Neil Kay has considered this , being an expert and what not….
The previous Cal/Mac service was not used as much as it should have been as there was only 1 ferry an hour compared to Western’s 3 so drivers used Western rather than wait on Cal/Mac.Put a half hourly service on from Dunoon pier and people will use it.Western can hardly cry foul about any subsidy as this would only cover foot passengers which Western really don’t cater for.It has been said that the route could not sustain 2 operators why then did Western bother to start up in the first place,i don’t think a company would start a business if they didn’t think they could make a profit.
60,000 cars were carried by the streakers annually and the vehicle side of the service made a profit and was separate from the passenger subsidy. It was a restricted service by the Thatcher Government to ensure that Western Ferries was profitable. It is now reported to be the most profitable ferry company in Europe if not the world with a 30% return on investment thanks to a Westminster Government’s interference in CalMac’s ability to compete on a level playing field.
I agree with the comment above by Pencefn, the old streaker regularly sailed with only a handful of people on board, it was a waste of time and money, the people of Dunoon all chose to use Western Ferries instead. The service by Argyll Ferries right now did have a bumpy start but is decent and the Flyer and Ali Cat are more than capable for the route and are anything but ‘tubs’ as the Cowal Courier keeps calling them, the Ali Cat was even on the route back when the streaker was running and there wasn’t any complaints then so I’ dont get what the arguments are for now.
Agree with kamasutan in what he says. If people have a car then what difference does it make if you get on a Western Ferry, you just drive off into Gourock and if you are on foot then the Argyll Ferries takes you to the same place as any new ferry would. The other option of the McGills bus service is reliable and comfortable plus it’s free with a concession pass if you have such a priviledge.
No complaints then? What planet are you? On it failed to sail many times is only licensed to sail in Calm, clear and settled weather which is not being enforced. Four times as many weather cancellations in three months than the streakers had in three years. Workers and students cannot rely on the service to get to their work or lectures with the obvious consequences. It is an essential public service as defined ie as service that meets another essential public service – the train. Clearly that does not matter to you as you obviously do not require to use it.
If vehicle owners had used the Cal-Mac service over the last decade or so, the current situation may never have happened. This current set up does not help passengers who have to travel by foot, and although the McGills service is good, it does take longer than the train service. But why would the government fork out millions of pounds, building new ships, if they can get a private company to do it for them? Another big problem is nobody can rely on the passenger ferries to get to work, appointments etc, even in June. Would Argyll Ferries get assistance to help them build up car users if they got vehicle ships? Will Western Ferries keep their fares to a reasonable level now they have a monopoly? Lots of questions that need answering by someone.
Follow your arguments through to their logical conclusion.
Why shoud WE (assuming you all live somewhere that is served by the ferries) pay a surcharge on everything we use and buy because it comes over the private ferry?
At the same time billions, not millions, are spent building bridges on the Firth of Forth?
Lets make things equal. Every vehicle crossing the new Firth of Forth bridge should be charged what, say £200?
Okay I count badly sometimes. New ferries for Dunoon would cost what say £20M. The new Firth of Forth bridge is say £2B.
So if it costs £20 to take a family in a car across the Firth of Clyde on a ferry then the equivalent charge for the same familly to cross the new free bridge should be £2,000.
Am I correct?
So if WE are paying for the free bridge why are we also paying to cross the Firth of Clyde?
The old CalMac service was once an hour with last sailing at 8:20PM., together with tickets limited to 6 months. If the old streakers had the same timetable and ticketing system as the current Argyll Ferries I think CalMac would have been the most popular service.
agree wholeheartedly and we need choice not a monopoly,would we be happy with only 1 supermarket.
If the old Cal-Mac service had the current timetable the Argll Ferries is now using I am sure it would have been the more popular car vehicle service, and would have encouraged greater competition. With Cal-Mac restricted to once an hour and last sailing to Dunoon at 8:20 PM, of course it could not compete with Western.
The current service is not reliable for commuting to work and the McGills bus is certainly not approriate for commuting. If you are not a pensioner it is also expensive and the one time I did use it to return from work in Greenock it was 45 mins late and had to wait 20 mins for a ferry. Sensible, reliable, bus-boat-train connections is what is required if people are to be able to commute to work. The commuters are peopl;e who are prepared to travel to earn higher income which brings money into the town. The town should not be for the retired and unemployed only.
Why can’t we have a ferry service which uses the Clyde with stops at Gourock Braehead and Glasgow. I am sure that this would cut out the transport problems and would utilise the river.
With a 5mph restriction upriver of the tail of the bank how long do you think this would take to get to work or college?
As a regular user of the Argyll Ferries service, I am with the majority who think this service is just not good enough. I attend college in Greenock and have found on many occasions that the service has been disrupted or cancelled, sometimes even before lunch time which left me to either miss out on my education so I could rush to gourock and get the ferry before the service stops or to fork out money to get to WF and then pay for a WF ticket when I already spent money on 10 journeys for AF. Students do not get enough money to have to pay for all the travel costs. If you drive or have a concession card then it’s easy enough for you to use other services, for example, mcgill’s dunoon to Glasgow service or the western ferries. But for us who do not drive and do not have a concession card then AF is our only choice.
Agree with most points here, especially the fact very few cars used the old streakers, use it or lose it, never truer.The only plus point now is that the letter to users group is from the “Organ Grinder” not the “Monkeys” maybe get some action now, though don’t think Western Ferries will be too chuffed, just ordered 2 new multi million pound ferries for next year, if new car ferry service starts at Dunoon Pier. We will just have to sit back and wait and see what, if anything, happens. Let’s not hold our breath, ok.
Can’t see any new commercial (as it must be) vehicle service provider, taking a financial gamble on hopefully getting enough vehicle users to use their service. They would have to pay to use the ships, staffing costs, fuel, and separate pier dues at Gourock and Dunoon. We will find out if this is feasible, as the Government study will no doubt give an answer to this.
CalMac was not run as a good business model. With the 30 year old streakers they should have made and put sufficient funds aside to build replacements. Secondly, they kept shooting themselves in the foot with their ticketing. Limited time of use (6 Months) Each car registered to the tickets and then the staff. It took at least 3 men to ‘park’ your car + a purser, plus a cafe/bar steward, plus a cook for the crew plus plus plus. No wonder it was uneconomic.
As for the politicians, since I moved here it has been all promises and hot air. Is it a wonder that Dunoon has become a forgotten town along with Campbeltown.
The streaker service was restricted by the tories back in the 80s to one an hour, and was designed to be uncompetitive to give the private operator the edge – at the taxpayers’ expense.
You can hardly blame the travelling public for using the Western service, which couldn’t fail to attract business under these circumstances
Labour made plenty of noise about the restrictions when they were in opposition, but did nothing about it when they had the power to do so. Neither did the Liberal Democrats – Alan Reid’s bleatings on the matter are little better than crocodile tears.
Not that I’m making excuses for the SNP, who have been utterly dishonest in their handling of this issue. As redroadshow says, don’t hold your breath.
When it comes to promises from politicians, words are very, very cheap.
Lots of very stupid comments here. The reason the old vehicle service (which was still running at a profit)was less used was because it was forbidden to put on a proper service. It was one-an-hour and no late sailings, while Western was putting on up to four sailing per hour.
On a survey which was done around six years ago and which attracted over 2000 responses the very vast majority of respondents indicated that if there were two equal competing services their preference would be to use Dunoon to Gourock.
On serious political grounds it is never sensible to have an essential public service in the hands of private monopoly and the only proper way to run what is the busiest ferry crossing in Europe is by a competitive regime. Competition keeps fares down and is hugely in the public interest and it is also very much in Dunoon’s interest to have visiting vehicular traffic coming directly into the town and also to have reliable connection to the Glasgow train.
In short the best solution for Dunoon is the restitution of the town centre to town centre vehicle and passenger service running in competition to Western Ferries and anybody who can’t see this is well off the mark.
This was exactly what the Government’s own report said but vested interest, Mrs Thatcher’s lunatic privitising obsession, continuous lobbying by Western Ferries and a Transport Depertment determined to remove competition to Western Ferries has resulted in a massive cock-up.
Very interesting comments especially about MPs and our MSP who now wants a tunnel laid on the bed of the Clyde. We are only getting a thought from our wonderful MSP. He may have looked at all the detail before going into print, but the more I read of his ramblings the more I doubt his vision. I would rather go with Neil Kay who talks sense, not politics. Our MSP tries to cover up his SNP council by blaming officials for the bad publicity. I thought they worked for the council, or do they dictate policy now to our new council. Our MSP does not answer awkward questions on the SNP pushing the campus at Kirn, not the council as they made out at the election. You do not know who to believe any more. Anyway let us see how well our new SNP group run our council.
Argyll Ferries say that there may be disruptions and cancellations due to heavy fog!
I read our MSP’s vision of a tunnel connecting trains right through to Ireland! Given that his party failed to cough up the £15-20M required for the ferries they promised and have not dealt with the A83, where exactly is he going to get the money for that from?
I cannot imagine Western would be too happy about being put out of business by a tunnel that would be presumably be free to use. Still I don’t think they will be losing any sleep over the MSP’s ramblings.
We need a strong healthy Western Ferries service making a reasonable, but not excessive, profit in competition for vehicles with another operator.
That gives flexibility if one service has a problem, the ability to cope with peak demands e.g. Cowal Games, A83 closures etc. an overall better service and fairness.
Why oh why did the SNP not simply deliver on their promise?