Cowal Games faces funding axe in row over “discriminatory” dance competition
June 28, 2012
EXCLUSIVE:
THE Cowal Highland Gathering could be stripped of all funding and help from Argyll and Bute Council if it doesn’t change a “discriminatory” dance competition policy.
Helensburgh councillor Vivien Dance is demanding that the gathering be hammered financially if it continues to exclude dancers from Lomond in its Argyll events.
Currently only youngsters from the ‘Historic County of Argyll’ can take part, while dancers from Lomond – which became part of the district under local government boundary changes in 1996 – must sit out.
A motion by Councillor Dance calling for around £95,000 of council help to be withdrawn if the rule remains in place is set to be voted on at Kilmory today.
She told CowalCourier.com: “I am bitterly disappointed that I have had to go to this extreme.
“I have reached the point where I have to get a decision from the council because I have got nowhere with the committee of the Cowal Highland Gathering.”
Councillor Dance – who is fighting for three young dancers to be included – insists that the Gathering must now recognise the modern day Argyll and Bute boundary.
She added: “The council pays £58,000 every year to the Gathering, plus another £37,000-worth of help ‘in kind’ to allow it to function.
“I do not think it right that Argyll and Bute Council helps to fund an event which so blatantly discriminates against children who live within its boundary.”
Councillor Dance said her hard-hitting motion came about after discussions with representatives of the gathering had come to nothing.
She said: “I thought it would be a simple thing to rectify but when I met with representatives of the Gathering they were very unhelpful.
“I have no issue with the level of funding provided to the event by the council because it represents an excellent economic return for the area from that investment.
“But I now have to look three Lomond youngsters in the eye and say that their council gives more than £90,000 to an event they can’t dance in. It is absolute nonsense.”
Councillor Dance told how she became aware of the situation by speaking to a young dancer from Arrochar at last year’s Gathering.
She said: “I had to check with her dance teacher, and sure enough, the competition was restricted to children of the ‘Historic County of Argyll’.
“I brought this up last September when the former council executive met to discuss the three-year service agreement with the Gathering, but nothing has happened.
“I know that I am too late to change anything for this year but it is vital that the council makes a decision today so that competitions are more inclusive from 2013 onwards.
“I feel I have a duty to get these youngsters into the biggest event in Argyll and Bute. The current policy is discriminatory.”
Councillor Dance added: “The new administration put school dinner blogger Martha Payne at the centre of its decision making when it overturned a ban on her taking pictures of her meals.
“I can only hope that the council puts these three youngsters from the Lomond area at the centre of its decision making today.
“We have a policy of equity within the council but, as things currently stand with the Gathering, some are more equal than others.”
The Gathering declined to comment on the situation ahead of today’s vote.
Event manager Malcolm Barclay said: “The Board have decided that they do not wish to comment on the motion at this time but wish to see the outcome of the meeting first.”
Councillor Dance’s motion – seconded by Councillor Maurice Corry (Lomond North):-
That this Council:
a) Recognises and values the dedication and commitment of the volunteers and management who stage the Cowal Highland Gathering which contributes to the economic viability and sustainability of the local community and is a significant and prestigious cultural event for the whole of the Argyll and Bute area.
b) Is committed to promoting equality and endeavours to ensure that all youngsters who reside in Argyll and Bute have equity of opportunity to achieve their aspirations, ambitions and potential.
c) Agrees that the management of the Cowal Highland Gathering be advised that the current discriminatory practice in the Highland Dancing competition whereby Helensburgh and Lomond dancers are excluded from the Argyllshire Championships ceases from 2013 onwards as a condition of the continuation of all funding, both “in kind” and through the SLA, provided by Argyll and Bute Council.
d) Agrees that the management of the Cowal Highland Gathering be advised that the definition of Argyll and Bute in all of the competitions at the event from 2013 onwards reflects the current boundary of the local authority as a condition of the continuation of council
63 Responses to “Cowal Games faces funding axe in row over “discriminatory” dance competition”
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Don’t care for her but on this I agree with her.
She forgets to mention that there are other competitions these kids can enter at Cowal, they are not excluded totally.
If someone wants to donate a trophy for the Historic County of Argyll then that is their right surely? After all, it’s been competed for for nearly 100 years.
The way this woman has acted behind the scenes is quite frankly, appalling for a councillor
Yes the children can enter other competitions and so can the children from Dunoon, Rothesay, etc from Argyll and Bute.
yes there are other competitions but the point is why are they being discriminated against because of an old ruling? The rule should be changed so that ALL current Argyll & Bute children can compete together in the same competition. How sad that 2 children could be in the same class at school but can’t compete together in the same section?!
Actually they wouldn’t be in the same school class, apologies!
they may not all be in the same school but they are all educated under the same local authority and all the schools from the islands to Helensburgh can compete against each other at any school events like the youth games so why not Cowal??????
and that local authority is……..Argyll and Bute.
I understand that some may not see this as discrimination, but sadly it is discrimination. I am a parent of a child who has competed in the confined events, who happened to win not only medals but also a trophy and was EXCLUDED from competing the following year in the confined premier section. How can someone be eligible for confined one year and not the next – and no, she has not moved house!
Has this lady nothing better to be concerned about? I hope the Gathering sticks to their guns. Helensburgh is in Dunbartonshire and always will be, it is just administered by Argyll & Bute. It is not Argyll and the council’s funding of the Gathering pre-dates this enclave of West Dunbartonshire coming under the control of A&B. It is misleading to call Helensburgh ‘Argyll’ and the motivation for them joining was more about a desire to break away from Dumbarton and Clydebank than any economic or social/cultural ties to Argyll. Helensburgh remains part of West Dunbartonsire economically, so they are welcome to request exclusive funding for their own event. Cowal residents are entitled to this funding. Lets preserve the integretity of the Gathering events, this is not discrimination in any sense.
This is children we are talking about here.
To be honest you sound like a bunch of insular snobs. I wonder how many people from Helensburgh and Lomond go to your games to make it a success. Just because something is a tradition or belief doesn’t make it right.
Helensburgh and Lomond are part of Argyll if you like it or not.
if my taxes are paying for your games then you just have to like it or lump it.
If, as Colin says, Helensburgh is NOT part of Argyll, I suggest the good people of Helensburgh (myself included) ensure that our council tax money is not used to support an event from which we are excluded at any level.
I have to strongly disagree! Helensburgh has been part of Argyll & Bute for over a decade and Argyll & Bute have enjoyed the monies that the folk of Helensburgh contribute to the Council, so why exclude them from Argyll & Bute confined events?
Colin, may I make a suggestion. You say Cowal residents are entitled to this money as they reside within Argyll & Bute. Well, call me a simple sort, but upon last looking at my council tax bill, and I have been reading now for the better part of 34 years, I’m pretty sure that it says “Argyll & Bute Council” at the top. Not “Dunbartonshire” or “West Dunbartonshire”. We are talking about kids dancing here. My daughter is hoping to dance at Cowal this year and I would like you to be present when I tell her that she’s not allowed to enter the Confined Championship because of some boundary. Never mind the subject of local politics. People like you should drag yourself into the 21st Century and wake up. No go and put another lump of peat on the fire. Further, show me your Council Tax bill and I’ll show you mine!! Think you’ll find, more money comes from Helensburgh and Lomond than over where you are. Bet you were never a kid yourself!!!!!
Charming! What emotional nonsense, I have young kids myself and they don’t get everything they want. What is so difficult to grasp, the council boundary is different from the county boundary used by many organizations like the Gathering and the Church of Scotland. Geographically Helensburgh is in Dunbartonshire and the people voted in 1996 to be administered by A&B. The Dunbartonshire premier contest held in Bearsden is open to your kids, so what is the big deal? As for council tax revenues, the issue is irrelevant to this debate, but I think you’ll find the tax take in Cowal is similar to Lomond and the funding short fall for the whole of Argyll & Bute this year is being plugged by Cowal and the £2m sale of Castle Toward.
Why would you assume Helensburgh wants to ‘break away’ from Dumbarton and Clydebank? What are you implying exactly?
I’m implying nothing. That is what happened in the 1996 vote. Look at the other comments from helensburgh readers, they are the ones talking about getting away from Dumbarton & Clydebank! I am very fond of both towns and I didn’t vote to break away.
Take this to it’s ultimate. Can Scotland pick Brazilians for the Scottish football team even though Brazil is outwith Scotland’s boundaries. I am being ridiculous here, just as Vivien Dance is just playing politics to get herself noticed. I would think our Council would have far more important concerns on its agenda.
That’s not the logical conclusion at all. Brazilians don’t pay our council tax and we do. The other fact is historically or not Helensburgh and Lomond is now within the boundary. To deny children to compete in there “local” competition is quite frankly disgusting.
Have you got a brain
Not quite sure why Arrochar has been mentioned considering number 910 Arrochar and number 945 Arrochar number 878 Helensburgh 881 Cardross all competed in the event – 7 intermediate category dancers aged 13 years and under, resident in the Argyll & Bute District. As listed in Cowal 2010 programme.
So why not Premier then?
Yes I can agree with you, to a point, my daughter, from Helensburgh has competed in events within the confined section but as soon as she wanted to dance in the premier event within the confined section – she was not allowed. You are correct, she could enter the Scottish championships at the time, but so can anyone within Scotland (which includes dancers from Dunoon, Bute, Oban etc) it is the ongoing practice not to include ALL dancers who live within Argyll & Bute who wish to compete in the Premier confined event that is wrong and in deed discrimination.
Ok have to take that back, the dancers are allowed to compete at pre championship level, but not at championship level. However, they can still compete at Cowal as this hosts, the Scottish Nationals confined to Scotland, the Scottish Championship worlwide and the worlds. There are numerous championships that take place throughout the highland dance callendar that involve confined championships.
Motion dropped like a hot potatoe because no one was going to vote for her, her timing for this is ridiculous, the busiest time for organisers in the lead up to the Games and they have to take their eye off the ball to deal with this – hang your head in shame councillor
@v8kenny I agree that the timing is not great however this has been ongoing for 16 years. Whether you think that Helensburgh and Lomond should or shouldn’t be part of argyll and bute is irrelevant….we ARE part of Argyll and Bute and therefore we all deserve to be offered the same opportunities.
After all, when A & B council tried to close the schools, we had our fair share on the list……
Helensburgh joined Argyll and Bute in 1996 they left Dunbartonshire. Why should the children from Helensburgh be excluded from an event in Argyll and Bute when our council tax is paying for it. All they want is to get the same opportunities the other dancers from Dunoon, Oban, Campbeltown, Bute etc. Helensburgh Highland games had a competition confined to everyone in Argyll and Bute.
It is not fair on the young dancers who want to compete in their local competition at the level they should be. They have worked bloody hard to get to this grade and it was not the constituents’ choice to be moved from Dunbartonshire to Argyll & Bute. Politics and personal grievances aside, it should be about what’s right for the local children. I can’t believe the narrow minded comments that have been left about Helensburgh not being part of Argyll & Bute – I believe my council tax bill quite clearly arrives on Argyll & Bute Council headed paper!!
To Colin and all who share his view I would like to remind him that Helensburgh and Lomond is one of the most densely populated in Argyll & Bute and as such has much more council tax payers to pay money into Argyll & Bute’s pot. Also many people in Helensburgh and Lomond (like me) are employeed to do alot of very good work to support all areas of Argyll & Bute Council. Thankfully we do not have a ‘them and us’ attitude. Yes there are other competitions but that is besides the point. Some of our children (and I say this because my daughter will be one of these children one day) enjoy entering these compitions and just love the excitement of competing at competitions like Cowal, so to have to tell them at such a young age that because of where they live in Argyll & Bute they cannot compete is highly discriminatory. If anyone should hang their head in shame it is the residents of Argyll & Bute who are living in the past and will not accept that Helensburgh and Lomond is very much a part of this council area!!
Well said angela. We’ve been part of argyll & bute for what, 16 years, when will we be accepted do you think?
This is plain discrimination for all to see after all we are all tax payers in the same area how can something’s be open to some and not to others
Firstly, why is Vivian only fighting for three dancers, there are far more premier dancers that could compete in the confined championship all from Helensburgh etc, I think as a local councillor she should be fighting for all children. Secondly, I think the issue here is consistency – if children from Argyll and Bute (not ancient) can compete in pre-premier then they should be allowed to dance in the confined championship, if it is to stick to ancient a&b then it should be the same for the pre-premier. Thirdly, perhaps the Highland dancing world should make a seperate confined championship so that children from Helensburgh and even West Dunbartonshire should have the opportunity to compete at championship level (confined). Currenlty there are confined championships in Glasgow, Renfrew, Aberdeen, Tayside etc all giving dancers the opportunity to take part in a confined champ.
Vivien Dance is doing this for all the Helensburgh Highland dancers the other dancers have not been in touch with her. She is aware of other dancers who go to different schools out with Helensburgh, and their teachers should be campaigning on their behalf and letting Vivien know who they are.
She is not fighting for only 3 dancers. She said she was made aware of the situation and knows of 3 but there are lots out there and I agree with margaret that their dance teachers should be on the ball and fighting their corners for them too.
we are trying to get away from West Dumbarton why would or should we share a championship with them ?
Didn’t say I wanted a championship with west dumbarton, I was pointing out that they also do not have a championship. I see you all also were quick to jump on what I said about vivien, however chose to ignore the fact that I am actually in agreement with the issue here that there is no concistency with the confined championship. Having sauid that I am in agreement, I do not feel strongly enough to make an issue of it. Wish you good luck in your quest.
If you read all the comments that have been put up you will be aware that there is only one dance teacher from the Lomond and Helensburgh area that is fighting for ALL dancers to compete in all confined competitions. How bad is that – they should all be doing it.
I have clearly read the above and there is more than one dance teacher fighting the “confined championship”. Regardless as I stated earlier if you had read that I am in agreement with this, so please avoid “having ago” at someone who is an agreement. I can state that I think the way this is going is an embarrassment after all it is just a confined championship, I think talking about telling our children they can’t compete and the devestation it will cause is a bit too much. Consistency is what’s needed, they either allow to compete the same way as pre-premier or they don’t. Then perhaps one of the dance teachers that is making an issue can apply to hold their own confined championship (probably not as easy but hey ho) its only cowal, not the bloody olympics!
I try to avoid taking much interest in local politics and folk like some of the thoroughly modern gents and ladies of Ancient Argyllshire who have commented on this article are one of the reasons why..It’s a CHILDREN’s dancing competition…a historical anomoly means some kids who should be included are excluded. Surely this should be easy to remedy? Why all the venom about Helensburgh?
Absolutely Fuschia! Why indeed all the venom for helensburgh?! The dancers which are affected by this are not all from helensburgh but from the Lomond are, Arrochar etc.
What people are forgetting is that Helensburgh and Lomond are not allowed to dance in the confined sections of Dunbartonshire because they are part of Argyll and Bute. Whether the residents of the old Argyll area or indeed those of the new Argyll area like it, we are from the same area and all should be offered the same opportunities. Please make all the children equal……dancing may be their future and not just their hobby.
Hear, Hear Lussmummy!! I totally agree!
Go Lussmummy! Totally agree!! x
I think you will find that they can compete at the Bearsden Games in he confined to Dunbartonshire sections. The confined events are qualifiers for the national finals held in Oban each year and the Helensburgh and Lomond area falls within Dunbartonshire in that respect so for Cllr Dance to say the Cowal Gathering are being discriminatory is untrue. Perhaps this is why she had a lack of support for her motion when the other Cllrs were presented with the facts
I live in Helensburgh, I’m the proud Mum of a young dancer and I’m an Argyll and Bute council tax-payer.
In the current economic crisis, £90,000 of support from Argyll & Bute Council is a significant amount of money. The benefit to the Cowal economy has always been a valid reason for the Council to support this, as is ensuring the ongoing success of one of the most successful and well known Games in the region. However, I question the validity of providing this level of support to an event which excludes the children of all Argyll & Bute Council tax payers. In the absence of any reasoned argument put forward by the Games organisers, the Council or any commentator on this page, such as ‘it’s been like this for 100 years’ and comparisons with the Brazilian football team (!) I agree with Vivien Dance in her statement that this is blatant discrimination.
It’s too late for this year, but I would commend the Games organisers to review their outdated and discriminatory rules for 2013. If this is not forthcoming, this ongoing level of financial support from A&B Council would be an outrage.
I am from Helensburgh and i think to solve the problem let the children dance next year. We help fund so we should not be discriminated. Vivien has got the childrens best intetest at heart. Thank you to everyone who has words of support, if the shoe was on the other foot i’m sure there would be no negative comments from some!!!
I live in Helensburgh, therefore, an Argyll & Bute council tax payer. I am also the proud mum of a Highland Dancer who will one day compete as a Premier dancer at Cowal.
If Helensburgh & Lomond Beginners, Novice and Intermediate dancers are allowed to compete in the A&B confined section then why are Premier dancers not. It should be the same rules for them all. Are the dancers in historic Argyll and Bute scared of the competition from the Helensburgh & Lomond Premier dancers.
As we are all Argyll & Bute Council Tax payers then the financial support the Council gives to Cowal should benefit all children from all of Argyll & Bute.
Why are Helensburgh and lomond dancers not allowed to compete in the championships confined to argyll and bute, when dancers from the isle of bute are? Yes they are in argyll and bute but it is being said that only dancers that live in the historic argyll area are allowed to compete. Bute is not classed in historic argyll and only became a part of argyll in 1975 and the name was then changed to argyll and bute. This is a clear case of discrimination against dancers who live in the Helensburgh and lomond area.
Well researched and shared sophie! Wonder if anyone will reply…………..
well said Sophie !!
Discrimination in general is disgusting, but when it comes to dancing discrimination it’s just ridiculous. Do us all a favour and let us dance where everyone else can. You’re all ‘mature adults’ who know how important this sport is to us. Think about how you would feel if it was your pupils or children living in Helensburgh, and all they wanted to do is compete with other dancers from the rest of Argyll and Bute. It’s part of our Heritage and History, and something must be done to change what you’re doing. I, and the rest of us objecting, cannot express any further how much we feel you should reconsider.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyll
Why Bute but not Helensburgh and Lomond?
Poor kids must be so disappointed, they’re too young to understand why they cannot dance. Council should be so ashamed.
Right. My daughter is a dancer from Helensburgh and I think it smacks of discrimination. In this day and age, and with all that is going on in the world, are we really going to still stop kids from dancing in a competition linked to ancient boundaries?? Whilst I understand the importance of the Games and that they remain council funded, I would suggest all Cowal residents take heed of this. I think it’s safe to say that a majority of the money YOU receive comes from Council Tax payers among the 15 or so thousand residents of Helensburgh. So, in my opinion, if our kids are not good enough to be entered into your competition, why should we in Helensburgh fund it? And how would you feel if YOUR kids were told they couldn’t be entered in a competition in Helensburgh/Lomond. It’s the 21st Century. Get with it!!!!
Cowal has a similar sized population to that of the Helensburgh area. We all put into the pot.
exactly “we ALL put into the pot” so why are Helensburgh & Lomond dancers not included in the confined section!!
Really!!!! Think we’re a wee bit more densely populated as a town RATHER than an entire peninsula!!!! Would love to see the census statistics methinks. Send me them on a slate via pony express please. I might get them by next week!!!!! Or can you send smoke signals from your peat fire!!!!!
You don’t have to be so cheeky, Robbie. It cheapens the good points you make. As you can see, there is no need for smoke signals or pony express. This website is based in Cowal – where there is internet. We will get the exact figures, but for the moment we understand that there is only around 1,000 people of a difference either way between the two areas. By the way, to the best of our knowledge – no-one in Dunoon and Cowal has a peat fire.
Cowal courier
Please remember that we are talking about Helensburgh and Lomond which takes in quite a large area with many small villages, and not just the main town of Helensburgh.
Plus, the old “Argyll” region didn’t seem to mind when 4 of the areas school were up for closure by Argyll and Bute…..didn’t see them all on the forum shouting about us being a Dunbartonshire community then. Instead they all rallied round to save each other. I hate to say it but there are some very short memories.
We are an Argyll and Bute community, have been for 16 years and will continue to be.
That is not in dispute. But the outlandish and very juvenile comments from Robbie are, at best, unhelpful and, at worst, just downright rude with absolutely no basis in fact. Yes, we are all part of Argyll and Bute, so perhaps Robbie could explain why he appears intent on driving a wedge between our respective communities.
There have been some very nasty comments left about Helensburgh and the people from there so I suppose he is just defending where we live. If you read through all the comments, which I’m sure you have, you will see it all started near the top with comments saying Helensburgh will never be a part of argyll & bute etc. this is not about throwing insults back & forth – its about changing history and concentrating on the future and the future is our children. I don’t think its a big ask but the people of cowal seem to have taken umbrage and I’m not really sure why.
Fresh story on this subject on the website now – ‘Councillor Dance’s back into the Gathering fray’. See front page of site.
In reply to mammashaz – where are the nasty comments about Helensburgh? I don’t see any. The venom is coming in the other direction. For the the record Helensburgh is a lovely town with nice people, butsome folk are far too eager to shout discrimination when there is none. Geographic boundaries are different from local authority boundaries, the Gathering is sticking to the correct boundaries. Be proud to dance for dunbartonshire at the bearsden premier contest and stop knocking the cowal gathering.
I do not want to cause ill feeling amongst the dancers.I know a lot of the dancers from Dunoon and Rothesay and they are lovely children with lovely parents.
I also do not want Cowal to lose any funding and hope that we can sort the problem for the Helensburgh and Lomond dancers without any more bad feeling. I only want the best for my children who work hard all year at their classes and never tire of dancing for charity.